[ 00:00:19 ] I think the environed right now with independent high Castres is very collaborative and very supportive. They have a couple live events where everyone goes to support each other brainstorm learn together. There are few events where what the independents call pro caster’s like Bill Burr Mark Marin TUDO Queens where I think the independents feel not just competition but also like. As my editor says like get out of my sandbox go play in your own sandbox. And some of that I think comes from fear that everything was fine and dandy until corporations came in and started to try to make money. And then there are shows and I mean my own personal attitude is they’re raising the bar for what’s a good standard and what’s not a good standard which is well needed because there are four hundred thousand shows in iTunes right now and you know. If 100000 are good. That’s a miracle right. So. So let people who are professionals who are rational speakers who are celebrities. Let them come in and show what good content can be so that we can level up and be our best selves so we’re not just turning our on our computer. And you know using whatever Mike is closest by let us get editors and let us get producers and sound designers although no one I know has a sound designer but I mean. I think that’s important. I don’t think I don’t think they should feel competition. Also the way I try to describe it is. You know you have an you store you make beautiful hats You make beautiful scarves you’re not really competing with Donna Karan and Tom Ford. So why. I mean they’re in your sandbox but they’re not really in your sandbox. So I love that the independent podcasters are so supportive of one another and that’s male. I mean I have a Facebook Group of Eight thousand women. They’re extremely supportive of one another. I think that when you go into online communities where there’s men there can be a little bit of. The word. I don’t want to see mansplaining but it’s sort of like men who are just there are certain men specially men who are in technical fields that are sort of more know it all and they kind of can make anyone male or female feel like every question is a stupid question. I think that’s personality driven though so for the most part I feel like it’s a very collaborative space. And then actually when I interact with them more professional podcasters even that is a very collaborative space. It’s just that the two I mean I don’t know why am. I mean I know why I’m a bridge but I happen to sort of belong in both circles and they do not know of one another very well which I don’t but I again should that be that be or not I don’t know. But your answer to What’s it like to launch a brand. I mean I think it’s a little scary based on the fact that. There are so many famous I mean Bill Mark and those guys are already famous. They already have huge audiences. And then you have people who have who are nobody and they are starting from scratch and it can feel really like I’ll never get there. But you can you just need really good content. You need to treat it like a business and you need to focus on audience growth and you need to take it seriously.
[ 00:03:55 ] I think for beginners there is a huge misunderstanding as far as what to expect from any show that you’re going to put out. I think when people start their own business isn’t the advice always niche niche niche down niche down niche down niche down and sometimes it’s good advice and sometimes that’s not good advice when it comes to podcasting and you’re not talking about the thing you’re really enthusiastic about content not going to be good anyway. The problem is that there are coaches and teachers out there who have huge audiences that they’ve built from nothing. And I think people feel like if they follow that formula exactly of what that person did then they too should in turn have the same large audience. But it’s not necessarily true. And in addition the most common question that I get from new PI caster’s is I have this great idea for content. I’m starting it next week. When can I start talking about monetization. When should I go after my first sponsor. I have 70 downloads per episode. Am I ready. And the answer’s no and stop thinking about it and stop talking about it because you think your content is your product. It’s not your audience is your product. And. And that’s true not just by how many but who. Though Underwater basket weavers are very valuable to people who sell baskets. So they’re going to pay you way more than by the numbers whereas if you have a show with 50000 downloads an episode probably that’s a broader topic. Yes but it also means that you have to sell way cheaper $18 per thousand $30 per thousand downloads per episode. But if you have such an you know a ballet podcast or or an underwater basket weaving podcast or even like mine it’s a podcast for women podcasters. I think the most we’ve ever gotten is two or three thousand downloads an episode. But I don’t sell per thousand I sell per influence. We also have a group of eight thousand We also have 30000 followers between us on Twitter and so people pay for that they pay per month they’ve paid 500 750 1000 a month which has nothing to do with the number but everything to do with the niche. Because when we recommend a business coach or a podcast coach they will sell out. Doesn’t matter how many people are listening and that’s the key to. Niched and specific content as well. So yeah I think there’s a huge misconception of what to expect.
[ 00:06:26 ] I also think they’re not going after money in the right way every time. So if you think about how people listen to the radio or even streaming radio you turn it on and you kind of go about your business are partially listening partially not listening listening.
[ 00:06:48 ] And then you think about what you go through to listen to a podcast. Let’s just say you already know the name of the podcast you still have to find it on your phone. Then you have to find the show. Pick the episode. Hit play either put your earbuds in or you know tire shoes or do whatever it is you’re going to do before you get in. I mean most people listen to podcasts while doing a specific activity. So in itself the medium requires a much higher engagement which is why there’s so much more of a return on investment for advertisers and podcasts. That’s for the worst podcast that’s just over the board. Now you talk about whether or not a show or a host has influence over their audience. And actually it’s an interesting question because. For the past two or three years there’s been a podcast upfront.
[ 00:07:38 ] Which is the large networks trying to sell their shows to the outsiders. Now the first upfront they paraded out Katie Couric Jim Breuer Mark Marion all these people some of them were out there going.
[ 00:07:52 ] Yeah I do my show and my producer does all the work and I’m not really sure what I’m supposed to say it’s like I was in the audience just dying like why is this selling podcasts advertising. These people don’t give two hoots about podcasting. They don’t care they just show up and talk and go about their day.
[ 00:08:09 ] And so they I I don’t know if they heard me in my head or what but the following year it was the hosts from stuff I learned in history class the hosts from from people who have been pocketing for a really long time. It was samples of ads that they’ve done and the effect it’s had on the brand like I said I liked this. And then they got brand lift of you know 30 percent uplift and it’s because Mark Mary Kate hurt famous people have a reach but they don’t have influence. And that’s because.
[ 00:08:44 ] Their fame makes them a little unrelatable. If you take a pie crust like my favorite Burger who gets two million downloads an episode I mean because they’re not very famous.
[ 00:08:57 ] They have a huge influence over their listeners way more so than Katie Couric because they’re relatable they’re just like you and I were listening to two people talk about their favorite murders and gossiping about it. And so therefore the influence there is huge. I would also guess that they respond to their fans on Twitter that they ask for feedback that they read the feedback online that they sometimes do live events and that they’re interacting with their audience whereas like what is Katie Couric going to do a live event and they had her podcast and that’s never going to happen. So and also simply as someone who’s had no minor success you know I’ve never had a show that had like $50000 an episode or maybe I never will. But. I know when my audience is engaged because I blog for 10 years before I started a podcast and then soon as I open my mouth and they could hear me talk it was like all of a sudden they were tweeting to me. Great show great episode. I listened while I was packing I list while I was driving. What do you think about this. Have you ever thought about that. I love what you say but it was like they came alive. I knew they were there all along. Based on.
[ 00:10:07 ] Statistics and traffic and reach and stuff like that. But it was like.
[ 00:10:11 ] Something about hearing my voice made them feel like they knew me even that much more. And I’m not a shy gal but it was like all of a sudden. They felt like they knew me and I still kind of get that with my own show where people say hi to me at events and say Oh did you pack your Neutrogena makeup remover wipes and I was like Did I mention the. Guy that’s creepy that you know. But but that’s influence. You know they remember what I’m what products I’m using and I’m not even selling them. So it makes me think that I think you can gauge that but each host I think. You know it’s kind of like asking like how do you know when you’re in love. You just know you know when they’re talking about you when you when you hit it and they’re engaged with you you know when you have influence are these people.
[ 00:11:02 ] You know. Howard Stern said like podcasts are stupid if you you know don’t come to me and tell me are successful with your podcast you’re an idiot and he’s the same age as my dad. I think they’re like a year or so of her it’s like my dad Howard Stern. Gene Simmons and like the guys in Rush are all the same age. It’s very strange. But my dad used to come to any shows he was never speaker. He had a video production recycling business he would recycle videotapes and sell to people who needed videotapes. It was kind of an innovative thing and I mean like. Similarly he went to school he has a masters in video production and then he taught at Montgomery College and that I mean yeah there there’s some suffering that goes along with what happens when you go traditional and you go to school and then you go to college and then you get a master’s and then you fail and fail and fail and fail and fail.
[ 00:11:52 ] And I could not respect that more because while I haven’t done it in broadcasting I’ve had 40 jobs in 40 years. Before I started my own business I mean I’ve done every waitressing and retail job you could even have. And so. It’s.
[ 00:12:09 ] In a lot of ways when it comes to podcasting. I think he’s right. But also he’s wrong because podcasting is not broadcasting. So when it comes to the knowledge I will fully admit I do not know what I’m doing when it comes to editing. My first show I just I used a blue yeti or I think it was you know a snowball and I just would turn it on. Sometimes I don’t even think it was on properly. I never edited because I felt like I was too busy and want to learn how they don’t sound that bad but I mean there’s a severe difference between my first show and what’s happening now that I have an editor and someone who’s mixing my levels was with my co-host levels and stuff like that is someone who has the secret and two to go to college for it.
[ 00:12:56 ] And you can hear the difference. It’s a huge difference is an important difference. If you want to be taken seriously I think. That said if you can hire an editor which you know Howard doesn’t edit his own shows so if you can hire an editor I do think you still have to be meticulous about your content to have a good show. And I know that they have writers meetings and staff meetings and he’s paying writers and he’s got all these people because he has four hours of content that’s another thing I’m not doing four hours of content at the most I think I’ve had a show for two hours that’s the longest show I’ve probably ever done so.
[ 00:13:35 ] I don’t have to work as hard because it doesn’t have to fill air time. So to me it’s almost like two different animals. And so if you are the animal that has had to work harder that still has to work harder because you are in a studio. You have to be there at a certain time. People are listening live.
[ 00:13:53 ] I mean I would kind of be like it’s I mean. I mean again I have to go with like. It’s like Donna Karan. Like don’t act like you know fashion because you make scarves on Etsy like. You’re right. I’m not gonna care and I’m not Tom Ford I’m not making suits that are being worn site by celebrities he’s interviewing celebrities every day famous people hour long things like I’m not doing that I’m talking about women podcasting in their closet. What’s happening on panoply like a totally different animal. So I understand where he’s coming from and I kind of agree. And I think podcasters that took.
[ 00:14:29 ] Offense to that probably did so because you know I think we’re really hard repassing is really hard. It’s really hard to grow. It’s really hard to market. It’s really hard to monetize and it is really hard to have good content. I mean you have to be really meticulous about it. But I don’t think for the same thing.
[ 00:14:57 ] I mean how dare he question Howard. He is the by far the best interviewer of our time by far. I mean he’s being used in college courses and for good reason in fact the only reason I’ve ever been good is because I listen to Howard as a kid I grew up in the US listening to him in Philly Oh it actually D.C. 101. I listen to him and nobody digs like Howard. And so even when I was doing like entrepreneurial business like I used to do a show called The Business radio. I learned that from him like I learned to get you know Howard taught me that your job as a host is not to be their friend is to get the story. You know. And so that’s what makes a good interviewer is getting the story and if that’s the case and you can learn that from him like really who cares what the medium is. That’s I think his legacy is teaching you that you need to get the story and if that means dig and not be their friend and put them on the spot you do it because your allegiances to your audience not to your guest. You’re not supposed to be kissing as you’re supposed to be getting the story you know. And Howard is forever even if he’s in the Hamptons with the Aniston Thoreau party. You know he’s still forever that outsider that person who’s representing the rest of us. I mean that’s not neither here or there as far as like your question about broadcasting versus podcasting but like you know like think about like the people who do.
[ 00:16:11 ] I don’t know like do you think that people at NBC are like oh your show got picked up on Hulu. So you saw a show it may have less budget but as you work just as hard and people are still seeing it for that much of a difference. But right OK. On NBC. We get it. You’ve suffered. You know it’s kind of like yeah I’m on the line I guess.
[ 00:16:36 ] I saw an ad hoc housecleaning business radio in 2013. At that time there were not that many entrepreneurial podcast now that’s changed certainly. But at the time it was entrepreneur on fire. Smart passive income I think did some interviews and they weren’t really interviewing women. And at the time I was like I had to grow my business somehow or I’m going to go broke. I need to get on some podcast. And so I looked and I was like oh these people are never going to have me on because they’re mostly interviewing their dude costs. Interviewing do burners. And I’m and why the heck with it. What I mean just because I’m engaging they don’t know me they don’t know that yet. So this isn’t going to work. And also I’ve been on stations I was a little kid and I was kind of like and I was doing branding and web design and I felt. A little lonely doing that. So I started my own show and I thought you know what I’m going to talk about what women go through like every conversation on those shows was like what’s the key to success.
[ 00:17:33 ] What business book are you reading. But I want to know like what does your husband say when you on book tour for two weeks are like Are you making dinner every night or like who is handling that for you because you seem really busy and so. I went to New Media Expo and in Vegas.
[ 00:17:52 ] Figuring out how to grow my podcast. And when I was there my current co-host now will see Escobar who works for Lipton. She and I had known each other in passing online for a couple of years and actually there was a horrible snowstorm and I was having a terrible time getting to Vegas. She had a connecting flight in Philly which she told me about. So we met up at the airport and then of course she wouldn’t ask the person next to me to switch seats and to talk to a girl scout. So. What a turn off by the way. My gosh. So anyway so we get there and there’s like a lot of male high. Not that many women and. I asked Johnny DOUMANIS How should I grow my audience like what’s the key and he said How long is your show. I said an hour. He said cut it in half do two half hour shows you’ll double your downloads. And I was like. Well that’s not what I wanted to know. So I asked Elsje and she was like oh well you could do this and you could do that and I’d had some other women they’re like I don’t even know if their shows are still in existence but there’s like five or six of us and we would have a meal together and we’d talk about what we were learning and by the end of the event I was like I really just want to keep asking them stuff like I don’t want this camaraderie to end so I started a group called Women new podcast and I added the six women I knew who podcast it well Elsie who’s done it for 10 years out and another 100 people. She knew a hundred women that were already doing it. So I was like All right. And it just started. Growing and growing and so. Three months later she was like you know I’ve always wanted to do a show for women about podcasting would you be my co-host. And I was like. You want me to do. I don’t know that much about Hungus just been like kind of winging it. She’s like do I know you’ll be perfect. So within 24 hours I built a web site and social challenges like this is where I have to offer is the like I can’t I can’t.
[ 00:19:42 ] I’ll be you’re out on parole. OK Dr. Drew because I don’t know what I’m doing. And that’s kind of how our relationship works on the show. But then. I mean I was pregnant when we started the show. So I went out for maternity for about two months. When I came back my Women’s Entrepreneurial group hadn’t grown at all. This group had doubled and she was like I’m dying here. You’ve got to come in and help this. Like I can’t answer every question. It’s growing like crazy and it has just continued to grow over the past three years. Like you wouldn’t even believe. I think we are about 30 members a day right now.
[ 00:20:15 ] So it’s eight thousand I feel like yesterday was seven you know. And I thought we just celebrated. It’s growing like crazy. And so I felt like you know this is a niche that seems to need some some attention. So.
[ 00:20:29 ] We started to do courses for the members.
[ 00:20:33 ] We we started to look into when we go to podcasting events doing live events they’re selling tickets to do live events. We are still hemming and hawing about membership and stuff like that. I mean it’s kind of difficult because we both have. I’m really interested in how the podcast make money aspect and she’s really interested in like community outreach and like you know organic grow. And I’m just like but where’s the cash. We’ll talk about the cash aid something about the cash. So it compliments but also it’s difficult to always agree on how to monetize. But you know I mean I still almost feel like it’s new even though it’s like three years old. But anyway that’s how I came into fruition. For me it was a need of wanting to bounce ideas off women and then they seemed to need the same thing. We somehow created a place where no question was you know being made to feel stupid for being asked like no host would be made to feel stupid for being asked. We created a space where we can celebrate our wins without promoting to one another. So you can say my show got this many downloads or I can’t believe I got this person on today but yet it’s not. Check it out. Now here is the link like we completely forbid that so people can support each other without feeling like they’re being sold too which I think is really rare online and it works really well and people love being in it. And every time I mean I’m here that any show which is like. I would assume no one would know me yet.
[ 00:22:03 ] Right in the first room my session is almost like I’ve gotten so much value out of your group and it’s like that’s amazing to me because why would you be here. Like I you know it completely boggles my mind. So I love that it has that kind of impact and that you know that women feel like there’s someplace safe where they won’t be sold to won’t be made to feel stupid won’t be given an answer that’s too technical too complicated to.
[ 00:22:28 ] Spend the or just whatever so it is been worked out really good.
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Backstage Conversation Season: 2017